Interview
James Earl Massey
by Art Azurdia
(Continued from Page 1)
AA: One of the things that both convicted and encouraged me about The Burdensome Joy Of Preaching – and these are my own words summarizing what you said much more eloquently – is that you talk about the need for preachers to love and care for the people to whom they preach. I remember where I was sitting on the plane when I read those words and felt so challenged and convicted. What counsel would you give to a pastor who is saying at this moment, “I am not sure I love my congregation anymore.” Does this signal the end of his effectiveness? Must he move on? How do you challenge a brother who says to you, “Dr. Massey, I don’t know that I really care for these people any longer?”
| JEM: Allow me to begin answering your question by telling a story. An older friend of mine who is now deceased was at one time hearing complaints from his congregation. They insisted they needed a new pastor. He’d been there for some twenty-two years. Instead of fussing, fuming, and taking it out on them in sermons, he decided he’d go into his study and close the door behind him. He spent | The secret to ministry is being in the presence of God enough to hear enough, enough to get enough, and enough to be sent forth with enough. That’s the secret of pastoral ministry. |
his time fasting and in prayer, determined not to come out until he felt the Lord had freed him to do so. He stayed all week long. Saturday had come now, and Sunday was coming up. Something had to be done. He felt the Lord had blessed him sufficiently that he could come out and go home. But when he stood in his pulpit the next Sunday morning, the congregation had a new pastor.
The person who has lost love for his people might never have had it in the first place. Or, they might not have been sent by God to where they are. Or, they might have been too busy with the things of the world or their own little toys that they didn’t take their job seriously enough to fall in love with the people. At any rate, they can be renewed if they will take some time with God alone. That’s the way to renewal. The prophets went through it. The burdens they carried were too much for anyone to share, other than God. So they resorted to the desert. Moses went to the mountain. When he came down, he had enough for the people. The prophets had full instructions on what they were to do when they got back to the people. The secret to ministry is being in the presence of God enough to hear enough, enough to get enough, and enough to be sent forth with enough. That’s the secret of pastoral ministry. It is not our work. It is that of Christ.
AA: Dr. Massey, it seems that a predominant pastoral model I’m seeing today is the model of the pastor as CEO. Now, some men are even referring to themselves as “the visionary pastor,” which often seems to translate into such sentiments as: “Don’t bother me with people. I want to set the direction. I don’t want to dirty my hands with real life needs.” What kind of impact does that have on preaching?
JEM: Well, as long as preachers follow the business model, they’ll be thinking of statistics, the bottom line, and quote appeal when the real appeal is the anointing of the Holy Spirit upon one’s life and work. This was the appeal Jesus had. The common people heard him gladly because he was speaking to their need. They came to Jesus. He sought the individual and the crowds sought him. That’s not original to me. I read that in George Buttrick’s Jesus Came Preaching. But the principle is true. If there is a genuine interest in people individually, the crowds will seek us out because they will hear of our concern for them. And the visionary pastors - the Lord bless their souls - if the vision has to come from us, then we had better be there to implement it. But if it comes from God, He will give us those at our side to help us fulfill it.
AA: Homileticians such as Robert Smith and Bryan Chapell talk about the need for preaching to be Christocentric. To what extent does the message of the gospel intersect with the sermons you preach?
JEM: The basic motivation for any sermon has to be in a kind of ellipse. At one point in the ellipse there is concern for human need. The other point in the ellipse is the purpose of Jesus and his continuing ministry. Now, if there is a human need at one end of the ellipse, and Jesus has a ministry at the other end of the ellipse that will meet the person who has a need, we put that person who has the need in touch with the One who can meet that need. That’s what the sermon is about – getting them connected with the One who can meet their need: namely Jesus. So, in that sense, every sermon must be Christocentric whether it’s a sermon on doctrine or a sermon on some duty to be performed. Christ must be there in it with his ministry, showing the person who hears the sermon how they are involved and can be assisted. Of course, it is possible to preach about Christ in such a way that one does not help people get a need met. It’s possible to preach about Him in such a way that people feel condemned. But to preach about Him in such a way that He appeals from His ministry to their human hurt – that is a Christocentric sermon.
AA: We don’t hear a lot of Christocentric preaching as you have described it. We hear a lot of moralizing, a lot of self-help kinds of messages. It’s the danger of dividing the moral imperatives from the redemptive indicatives. What have you found to be the particular temptations common to those called to preach?
JEM: Well, there’s a whole list of them. There’s the temptation to be professional in order to be on par with the professionals in our community. There’s a temptation to be sensational in order to draw a crowd. There’s a temptation to be erudite so we can appeal to the learned. There’s a temptation to be practical to appeal to those who always want to see the sense of things. Sometimes, however, we have to preach in a way that does not seem to be practical to anyone, particularly when we’re preaching on eschatological subjects. There’s also the temptation to be safe so we don’t deal with prophetic issues. There’s a temptation to be secularistic so we don’t appear to be too spiritual. And then there are the other basic human temptations which go without saying. I think the greatest temptation is to try to be God-like in an authoritarian fashion. This is especially true if one uses his pastoral authority in an unloving manner to corral one’s board members and to order the congregation in such a way that the pastor is the controller rather than the facilitator or encourager. All of these are temptations.
AA: Temptations driven by what kind of underlying ambitions, Dr. Massey?
JEM: Well, the base of all of this can be fear. There can be other things, too. But I think, basically, there is fear – fear that I will not be received and given my due, fear that I will be undermined, fear that I will not be effective. At the core even of Adam and Eve’s sinning was the fear they would miss out on something if they didn’t take the suggestion Satan offered. At the core of human failure is fear.
AA: Have you known seasons in ministry in which there seems to be very little – if any – fruitfulness? How do you preach through those kinds of seasons?
JEM: Ah, yes. There come those times we might call “dry.” It seems that you are speaking a word that is only a word, over and against those times when you are speaking a word that you know has life because you feel lifted when you speak it. There come those dark nights of the soul when you’re doing it out of duty and feel no desire. I recall one morning I was up in the pulpit preaching and I had been through a horrid time of great pressure with so many activities that were pulling upon me. I was not aware of how tired I was. But as I was preaching, I felt myself drifting apart and I could see myself speaking while I was standing separate, looking on as I spoke. I finally came back into oneness and I’ve never had that experience again. But I have learned that you must sometimes yield the pulpit to someone else when you are overly pressed because the body is a part of one’s ministry. If we are too tired it asserts itself in ways that will undermine what the spirit of ourselves is trying to be. And I think that is what happened to Elijah after he went through that great time mentioned in I Kings – the battle of the false prophets. He was drained. No wonder he went out into the wilderness and sat under a tree. But interestingly enough, the angel came and fed him and the ravens came and fed him. And he was there by the brook where he could drink. Water at a time of tiredness is the best thing we can have even if we don’t eat much to keep the system regulated. Many people don’t understand that eating isn’t the key to health. Proper liquids in the system is the proper key to health.
AA: You’re certainly not a Gnostic. The body is important, and there are times when, maybe, the most spiritual thing we can do is sleep.
JEM: That’s right.
AA: How have you dealt with the criticisms that have been aroused by your preaching?
| JEM: There are two ways of looking at that: 1) In what ways are my critics right – so that I can learn how best to do it next time? And, 2) In what ways are my critics wrong – so that I can be encouraged to keep at my task? Even a clock that has stopped is right twice a day. So my critics can be right on at least this or that point even if they’re wrong on others. | One thing that is crystal clear to me – which experience has taught me - you can never master the art of preaching. It is always something toward which you are working, so that sermonizing is always a work in progress. You leave the pulpit saying, “Well, I flunked that time, but I’ll try again. Maybe next time I’ll get it right.” |
