Interview
Tom Schreiner
by Art Azurdia
Thomas R. Schreiner has served as the Preaching Pastor at Clifton Baptist Church since 2001 and at Southern Seminary as the James Buchanan Harrison Professor of New Testament Interpretation since 1997. He also serves as Associate Dean, Scripture and Interpretation. Prior to joining the faculty at Southern, Dr. Schreiner taught at Bethel Theological Seminary and Azusa Pacific University. He earned his B.S. from Western Oregon University, his M.Div. and Th.M. from Western Seminary, and his Ph.D. from Fuller Theological Seminary. A Pauline scholar, Dr. Schreiner has authored or edited several books on the subject. He and his wife, Diane, are the parents of four children and reside in Louisville, KY. Last summer, I had the privilege of sharing an evening meal with Dr. Schreiner and conducting the following interview regarding the relationship between theology and pastoral ministry.
Art Azurdia: Tom, what it is that excites you about theology? Why is theology important to you? Why have you given your life to it?
Tom Schreiner: I think theology is important because it affects our everyday lives. I became a Christian out of Catholicism and was introduced by those who mentored me to the Keswick view of the Christian life. Books such as Victory in Christ, by Charles Trumbull, and others by Major Ian Thomas, John Hunter, and Stewart Briscoe, were the only books I ever read. As a result, my life was focused on the victorious Christian life. I found myself continually failing but I kept thinking, “Well, I’m young. As I get older and more mature I’ll reach the level of these great saints of God.”
I was then advised that if I was called to ministry, I needed to go to seminary. I had no desire to go to seminary because I believed the people who taught at seminary were not spiritual – just academic. At twenty-two years old (five years after my conversion) I believed I knew everything. Nevertheless, I went to Western Seminary and immediately recognized in Earl Radmacher’s hermeneutics class that I knew very little. I didn’t even know how to study the Bible. I didn’t know theology. Through my classes, I quickly began to realize that the view of the Christian life I embraced and taught didn’t accord with Scripture. My seminary education was not abstract and unrelated to everyday life, for everything I learned in seminary related to my understanding of life. When I was learning soteriology and theology proper, it immediately impacted the way I lived and the way I understood my life. I found it immensely helpful. So for me, going to seminary was almost like a retreat.
AA: Who are some of the theologians you have found to be formative in terms of your own convictions?
TS: Augustine’s writings against Pelagius are very helpful. Calvin’s Institutes formed me significantly. I intentionally spent a lot of time in the primary sources. Luther’s Bondage of the Will had a great influence on me. His 1535 Commentary on the Epistle to the Galatians is tremendous. I read a lot of Edwards – especially when I went to Bethlehem Baptist. In terms of contemporary scholars, I would say George Ladd. During the summer following my first year of seminary, I read George Ladd’s Theology of the New Testament.
AA: Did you study with George Ladd when you were at Fuller Theological Seminary?
TS: No, he was in the hospital at that time. But his book had a huge influence on me as it opened up the “already not yet” theme in New Testament theology. Ladd’s writing is incredibly clear. John Piper’s preaching ministry has also shaped me significantly. I had already been out of seminary and teaching three years, but seeing theology worked out in the life of a church was tremendous. I had a bad ecclesiology coming out of seminary in the sense that I had given up on churches. I had begun to believe that the only place that would teach the Bible was a school. At Bethlehem I realized I was wrong.
AA: Well, perhaps we could piggyback on that a little bit, Tom, in terms of thinking about how you would define the relationship between theology and ministry. In other words, isn’t theology just for the academy? What bearing does theology have on the day-to-day, week in-week out life of the local congregation?
TS: I would say theology ought to inform ministry. If it doesn’t inform ministry, either something is wrong with your theology or something is drastically wrong with your view of ministry. They are not to be disconnected one from another. For example, our ecclesiology is to be formed by scripture. That was very important to the Reformers, the Puritans, and in the history of the evangelical movement. What does it mean to be a church? It means we are formed by the word of God. Too many churches are organized on pragmatic grounds. I also fear that we may lose the gospel because we think we know it already. On this point Luther is prophetic. He says that anybody who thinks they understand the gospel does not understand the gospel. He persistently said he was just a student of the gospel - not a master of the gospel. We never become masters of the gospel. We always remain students. Therefore, we must nurture ourselves with the gospel every day.
I’m very encouraged with a ministry like Tim Keller’s. Tim has a great understanding of the gospel and preaches it clearly.
